Awareness About Education

Quality is a major challenge- Zobaida Jalal

What is the most pressing educational challenge facing your country?

Today, it�s the quality of education, whether we look at the primary or elementary level or even at the higher education level. If after four years a child cannot read or write, what kind of education is that child getting?

What is the measure you have taken as Education Minister that you are the most proud of?

For me, I think it�s the sector-wide approach. For the first time we�re looking at education in its entirety -- right from early childhood education up to higher education --and not focusing on one part of it, like, for instance, just primary. And throughout, with public-private partnerships, we�re providing that enabling environment. Actually, things have started moving now, and there are opportunities for civil society organizations, communities, philanthropists and educationists to come and supplement the government's efforts and also opportunities for bringing the madrasas (Islamic schools) into the mainstream of education.

What I feel proud of is that the whole ownership of this approach -- from the provinces at the district government level, by the people, by education departments -- is going to be a reality for years to come. And that the whole sector-wide approach is very much owned at the grassroots level. That's very important.

The status of the teaching profession has plummeted in all regions of the world. Would you advise your children to become teachers?

I�m a teacher myself. My professional growth has happened through teaching, then going into administration and then becoming a minister. Yes, I would very much advise my children to be teachers. There are times when I say, well, it�s a lot of effort. What do we get out of it? Personally, it's what we as teachers share with communities. It�s what we give to them in return. That is how the profession can earn the respect and honour of the communities. It�s not only about money. As I say to the teachers in Pakistan, how do you bring about respect for this profession? And I say it�s not only money; as a teacher, what are you giving to the community? When you demand respect, people give it to you. Now, in Pakistan, we�re looking at teaching as a profession, and not as a last resort, as the last thing people do when they are not able to get a job.

With the EFA goal of gender parity just around the corner (2005), will your country meet that deadline?

Actually, we have not been able to reach the target we set because, first, the economic resources are not there and, second, accessibility to education and opportunities are fewer for girls than for boys in Pakistan. With public-private partnerships and the government�s decision to set up a national commission for human development, as well as the infrastructure that is being put into place by the government all of this is very much geared toward meeting the targets that the government has set. So progress has started and financially we have had unprecedented increases in the development budget (for opening schools, training, incentives for girls, infrastructure, bathrooms, clean drinking water, etc). We hope that by 2015 we will achieve equality, and that adult literacy will then be 85 per cent.

What is the percentage of Pakistan�s national budget that is allocated to education?

Presently, it�s 2.2 per cent. Very little. But it has grown from 1.8 per cent over the last two years and that�s significant. But this does not include all that goes into education. The ministry of science and technology, and the ministry of labour and manpower, and information technologies are all putting funds into education. These amounts have never been counted in the education budget, but we are now calculating this and reckon that it will go to 3 per cent.

At the World Education Forum in Dakar the international community promised that no country with a sound national EFA plan would lack funding. Has that promise been kept in your view?

No. On and off we keep saying this to our donor partners. UNESCO is not a funding agency, but at least as a �pressure� organization for bilaterals and multilaterals it can see to it that this commitment is kept. Pakistan has been receiving a lot of assistance from USAID, but that�s a different story. Apart from that, the Dakar commitment has not been kept.

HIV/AIDS is undoing many of the recent gains in education worldwide. What is your country doing to reduce the impact of HIV/AIDS on teachers, students and administrators?

By the grace of God, this is not an issue in Pakistan � yet. But it could become an issue because we have a lot of labour abroad in the Gulf States and cases have started coming back into our country. We have already taken precautions: there are a lot of information campaigns about HIV/AIDS in the print and electronic media, and we have already started introducing the subject in the school curriculum itself, in social studies. We have a lot of civil society organizations that are actually going into schools and talking to children who are 12 and older.

What is your view of the growing liberalization of higher education? Is its impact positive or negative for your country?

In face of the whole issue of information and communication technologies, Pakistan has already set up a virtual university. Last year, we started linking different universities in different provinces to the virtual university. This has now started within the country, and it is going to open up spheres for us also internationally. So, if anyone wants to plug in, you can�t just stop that even if you wanted to. It's impossible. On one hand, this has positive aspects: it�s more learning, more information globally, for students and professors, scientists and different people in all spheres of life. We�re looking at it positively. But naturally the commercialization of it all is a concern. Does that mean that access to higher education will be restricted � that only an elite can have it, or those who can afford to pay for it? And what about the poorer and intelligent good minds who make up most of the country? So we have to see how higher education can be there for everybody.

Why is it that nearly 1 billion adults are today illiterate, especially since we know that education is crucial for socio-economic development?

Over the years the focus and good intentions that were required were not there. As UNESCO�s Assistant Director-General for Education said, why has it not been possible to achieve education for all in some 60 years of UNESCO efforts? We should have achieved education for all by now. Looking at it from the Pakistan viewpoint, with the kinds of social and cultural systems that were in place in Pakistan, you had a feudal system, you had the conservative part of it, people opposing education for girls. This is 20 years ago that I�m talking about. But in the last 10 to 15 years there has been a huge change. Now in Pakistan, even in the tribal areas, the first demand is female education. And that�s the reality on the ground now.

The challenge for the government is how to provide these facilities for 140 million people when you don�t have an economy that is so reliant, except for the last three years -- we are just coming out of our debt burden. So now there�s more and more money going into the social sectors. Another thing is the unprecedented political will from the President to the Prime Minister to eradicate illiteracy. It will take another 10 years for people to become literate. Before there were structures in place that didn�t make this possible, but now there�s hope that in the next decade we�ll do it.

What education event in your lifetime would you consider as a milestone for your country?

The new government which came into place in October 1999, in spite of it being a military government. But that changed life for a lot of people in Pakistan, especially in education. The people who were appointed to take charge of ministries, such as education and others, were people who knew the reality on the ground, people who had lived through it all and who understood the whole dimension. They were not political appointments. Then there's the continuity of this government. Since the elections, there are two areas � education and finance � where the same ministers were reappointed. And that made sense.

What guidance/assistance in education do you expect from UNESCO?

Naturally, we all feel that UNESCO should be putting in more funds but I know that UNESCO has a different game to play. But intellectually, UNESCO can support Pakistan and other countries with technical assistance, through building capacity of education departments and strengthening institutions. That's very important for us.

(Note: Ms Zobaida Jalal has been Federal Minister for Education of Pakistan since 1999.)